Fishing ‘idiots’ should be charged for indecency: B.C. angling group - APTN NewsAPTN News

Fishing ‘idiots’ should be charged for indecency: B.C. angling group

Kathleen Martens
APTN News
A boatload of ignorant fishermen should be charged for drinking, urinating and exposing themselves to families, said an angling group working to reduce conflict on B.C.’s Fraser River.

“It’s the worst incident reported this summer,” said Rod Clapton, co-chair of the Fraser River Peacemakers.

“They’re idiots…As far as we’re concerned they should be charged with indecent exposure if the information reported is accurate.”

Clapton said he sent an email to the RCMP Monday asking them to find the five men caught on camera Saturday getting into a heated argument with members of the Union Bar First Nation.

“We’re not going to let this go,” Clapton added in a telephone interview with APTN News. “No member of the sport fishing community would excuse this. It’s unacceptable.”

Photos of the men in an aluminum boat were posted on Facebook. The men are seen drinking, urinating and making lewd gestures.

One witness said a man dropped his pants and underwear and exposed himself to women and children cleaning fish on the shoreline.

“They were casting, talking loud, swearing – and their voices carried,” said Stacy McNeil.

“We said, ‘Hey, there’s children here.’ But instead of moving on one guy started peeing and told us to shut up.”

McNeil said the man made “disrespectful” and unwanted sexual comments while exposing himself.

“As adults, we see this all the time. But our kids were so confused and scared, with no idea why it was happening.”

McNeil said several families were working in the fish camp between Hope and Yale when the incident occurred at about 5 p.m. on Aug. 25.

She said her hands were shaking as she called Hope RCMP and described the scene to a dispatch operator on the line.

No officer was available to come out but RCMP did provide an email address for witnesses to share their photos and video.

She said three boats piloted by community members pulled up to the anglers and “told them to move along.”

She said there was shouting back and forth and a fight came close to breaking out.

“They said, ‘We started it, the women started it.’ They were calling down First Nations (people), saying we were stealing all the fish.”

McNeil said the incident could have escalated into something more dangerous.

“I was trying to be calm because my children were there,” she said of the kids that are between three- and 15-years-old.

“My body was shaking because I was so angry. I was trying not to stoop to that level and respond.”

She said she is proud the community was able to defuse the incident and there was no violence.

Sto:lo Chief Ernie Crey, who co-chairs the Peacemakers group with Clapton, agreed.

“We encourage people to share the river instead of getting into a fight over it,” he said.

Crey said misunderstandings crop up when anglers are unaware they’ve anchored in a traditional fishing hole.

“In the past they used to throw rocks at one another,” said Crey, “or branches of trees.”

In 2009, he said former chief Willie Charlie was shot in the face with a pellet gun. That’s when Peacemakers was formed.

“We don’t get involved in criminal activity,” added Clapton. “We go and talk and help resolve differences.”

The group recently received an award from the federal government for its 10 years of advocacy and mediation.

But this encounter shows it still has work to do.

“This is a pretty nasty incident,” said Clapton.

“We really expect the RCMP to pursue this and identify these individuals.”

kmartens@aptn.ca

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78 Responses to “Fishing ‘idiots’ should be charged for indecency: B.C. angling group”

  1. Roxyz@hotmail.com'
    Roxy Ellis August 31, 2018 at 6:08 am #

    From what I see…..under the criminal code 213(1)(b) it illegal to operate a boat under the influence …173(2)(a-b) indecent exposure .also illegal….319(1)(a-b) …hate crime…also illegal….also no PFD (Personal flotation devices) fines and/or confiscations….and urnitating in a public place is a misdemeanor then once they got back to their vehicle…and ….who was to drive home under the influence with a boat in tow also !! But everyone is right….of it had been the other way around….they Frist Nations would have been in jail….but all these offences….and they couldnt spare one officer on duty !! I find that very hard to believe…..and just so we are all clear…my young nephew was on of the children there…scared and co fused…..learning part of our culture we are still trying to save….and ppl in this thread want us to move on……or would have been great if they had moved on….rather..they badger a whole group of First Nation Ppl…..if you only heard the things they were saying…most of which is so horrendous they cant publish it…..and ppl want to defend them…..gove ur head a shake….

  2. r****@hotmail.com'
    Roxy Ellis February 19, 2019 at 8:58 pm #

    From what I see…..under the criminal code 213(1)(b) it illegal to operate a boat under the influence …173(2)(a-b) indecent exposure .also illegal….319(1)(a-b) …hate crime…also illegal….also no PFD (Personal flotation devices) fines and/or confiscations….and urnitating in a public place is a misdemeanor then once they got back to their vehicle…and ….who was to drive home under the influence with a boat in tow also !! But everyone is right….of it had been the other way around….they Frist Nations would have been in jail….but all these offences….and they couldnt spare one officer on duty !! I find that very hard to believe…..and just so we are all clear…my young nephew was on of the children there…scared and co fused…..learning part of our culture we are still trying to save….and ppl in this thread want us to move on……or would have been great if they had moved on….rather..they badger a whole group of First Nation Ppl…..if you only heard the things they were saying…most of which is so horrendous they cant publish it…..and ppl want to defend them…..gove ur head a shake….

  3. dakotasiouxperwoman@gmail.com'
    Gail August 31, 2018 at 1:52 am #

    Hope RCMP said they are still investigating when I messaged them through facebook

  4. d******************@gmail.com'
    Gail February 19, 2019 at 8:58 pm #

    Hope RCMP said they are still investigating when I messaged them through facebook

  5. jocombes@hotmail.com'
    Jo August 30, 2018 at 6:19 am #

    They are on unceded territory and yet they act like they own the waters. Some act like it’s no big deal, and reply with so some feelings got hurt, get a life. Why is this not a hate crime? Indigenous shouldn’t have to defend their way of living. What the heck is wrong with the justice system? Canada has to protect its 1st people as is their fiduciary responsibility. The land is neither bought or sold. Why càn immigrants of any generation have more rights to treat another in such a manner while Canada stands by and accepts this? If I went to your house and hurled insults, exposed myself to your wife and children in such a way (as a indigenous person) I would be beaten and or murdered. Colton Boushie. How many accepted his murder as deserving? Missing and murdered woman, why are there so many unsolved cases that continue today? As the numbers climb with pedophiles, sex offences in churches, jails, fosterhomes,… It would not be tolerated in any property and would be open season for first nations. Can no one see the injustice?

  6. j*******@hotmail.com'
    Jo February 19, 2019 at 8:58 pm #

    They are on unceded territory and yet they act like they own the waters. Some act like it’s no big deal, and reply with so some feelings got hurt, get a life. Why is this not a hate crime? Indigenous shouldn’t have to defend their way of living. What the heck is wrong with the justice system? Canada has to protect its 1st people as is their fiduciary responsibility. The land is neither bought or sold. Why càn immigrants of any generation have more rights to treat another in such a manner while Canada stands by and accepts this? If I went to your house and hurled insults, exposed myself to your wife and children in such a way (as a indigenous person) I would be beaten and or murdered. Colton Boushie. How many accepted his murder as deserving? Missing and murdered woman, why are there so many unsolved cases that continue today? As the numbers climb with pedophiles, sex offences in churches, jails, fosterhomes,… It would not be tolerated in any property and would be open season for first nations. Can no one see the injustice?

  7. superion@hotmail.com'
    Agnetha LaDuff August 29, 2018 at 7:15 pm #

    All the racist white people should move to Europe where they belong and I mean ALL Racist White People.

  8. ohwayya@hotmail.com'
    Jaada August 29, 2018 at 6:49 pm #

    http://images.drivebc.ca/bchighwaycam/pub/html/www/466.html has anyone checked the webcams for the highways…

  9. s*******@hotmail.com'
    Agnetha LaDuff February 19, 2019 at 8:58 pm #

    All the racist white people should move to Europe where they belong and I mean ALL Racist White People.

  10. o******@hotmail.com'
    Jaada February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

    http://images.drivebc.ca/bchighwaycam/pub/html/www/466.html has anyone checked the webcams for the highways…

  11. Jmkspike@hotmail.com'
    Justin August 29, 2018 at 8:16 am #

    Someone exposed themselves to a 3 year old. They dam well should be charge Indecency with a child is always a felony offense.
    Too stupid is not a defense.
    Pee on shore or other side of the boat.
    Give your head a shake for thinking this is ok.
    Why is this not on other news sites.

  12. bobandjo@telus.net'
    Bert August 29, 2018 at 4:17 am #

    Blah blah blah bleeding hearts.if not for social media you would just deal with it. Shut up already

  13. j*******@hotmail.com'
    Justin February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

    Someone exposed themselves to a 3 year old. They dam well should be charge Indecency with a child is always a felony offense.
    Too stupid is not a defense.
    Pee on shore or other side of the boat.
    Give your head a shake for thinking this is ok.
    Why is this not on other news sites.

  14. ccdlchief@gmail.com'
    michelle August 29, 2018 at 1:46 am #

    they were pulled over in mission that night so there must be a record of it

  15. Bbergconsult@gmail.com'
    Brett August 29, 2018 at 1:14 am #

    I have seen these type of idiots before on other bodies of water. Boats ignoring distress signals from other boaters in trouble. PWC’s running rings around small fishing boats swamping them and pontoon boats full of foul mouthed drunks.
    But these ignoramuses have taken things beyond being foul mouthed nuisances. The pictures seem to have enough detail to find these idiots and they should be charged.

  16. skippy9@gmail.com'
    Brent Martin August 29, 2018 at 12:31 am #

    Its nice to have a cold beer on a sunny day fishing! But these morons are giving the responsable fisherman a bad rap! Some of us kneel and pee in a bucket when people are around. These idiots should be charged! Its there for all of us to enjoy! Repectfully! The fraser is a dying river. Better try and enjoy it! Happy fishing? Please?

  17. b*******@telus.net'
    Bert February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

    Blah blah blah bleeding hearts.if not for social media you would just deal with it. Shut up already

  18. c********@gmail.com'
    michelle February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

    they were pulled over in mission that night so there must be a record of it

  19. Joshwipf2@gmail.com'
    Jipp August 28, 2018 at 9:18 pm #

    Yes OUR CREATOR made his beauty for all to use. He didn’t make alchohol. That stuff makes humans idiots. These on the boat, what would they think if some one exposed themselves to ” their” wives or daughthers. Alcohol goes in, brain goes out

    • lajoiemarc51@gmail.com'
      Marc Lajoie August 29, 2018 at 12:27 pm #

      well said

  20. b***********@gmail.com'
    Brett February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

    I have seen these type of idiots before on other bodies of water. Boats ignoring distress signals from other boaters in trouble. PWC’s running rings around small fishing boats swamping them and pontoon boats full of foul mouthed drunks.
    But these ignoramuses have taken things beyond being foul mouthed nuisances. The pictures seem to have enough detail to find these idiots and they should be charged.

  21. s******@gmail.com'
    Brent Martin February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

    Its nice to have a cold beer on a sunny day fishing! But these morons are giving the responsable fisherman a bad rap! Some of us kneel and pee in a bucket when people are around. These idiots should be charged! Its there for all of us to enjoy! Repectfully! The fraser is a dying river. Better try and enjoy it! Happy fishing? Please?

  22. normanguno@gmail.com'
    fueldrickets August 28, 2018 at 7:46 pm #

    IF those were First Nations doing that to a group of non aboriginals, with the exact same scenario, exposing themselves to under age children, an other people like that, THEY would be in jail now, OR already dealt with by the proper authorities!!

    • nativerayne@hotmail.com'
      lavita trimble August 28, 2018 at 9:59 pm #

      my exact thoughts if the races were opposite rcmp wouldve made time to handle the issue

    • eric.marquez001@gmail.com'
      Eric August 29, 2018 at 7:28 pm #

      Yeah no doubt. You can bet they would of had officers available all of a sudden. Just another example about how subtle white privilege and institutionalized racism is…

    • Atdconnolly@gmail.com'
      Angela August 30, 2018 at 12:57 am #

      I can’t believe the RCMP didn’t even bother sending anyone out. They were given an email address? That’s horrible.

  23. stevenmak@shaw.ca'
    Steven August 28, 2018 at 7:34 pm #

    They should be charged. This is not acceptable

  24. bimodiz@hotmail.com'
    Marie L Bebamikawe August 28, 2018 at 7:21 pm #

    They should be made accountable for their actions or they will learn nothing. What they did to the children was very sick and should have been charged.

    • kerryessiambre@gmail.com'
      Todd August 28, 2018 at 9:04 pm #

      Grow up, wasting our tax payers money because your offended, what’s he supposed to do , piss his pants. SJW go take a long walk off a short Pier.

      • wattsndn@shaw.ca'
        Annie August 28, 2018 at 10:55 pm #

        So you condone indecent exposure of private parts to children; it’s you Todd and these demented men that should be ashamed. But it seem that white privilege (thinking that you can do or say anything to aboriginals) that is the problem. Your race of people have never changed since first contact, your behavior is sick.

      • langleymike@hotmail.com'
        Mike August 29, 2018 at 2:36 am #

        Pretty sure that dirtbag that “had to pee” could have simply gone on the port side of the boat or in a bucket. No need to go right in front of kids. I’ve managed hundreds of days on the water consuming many pints without dropping my pants in front of a 3-10 year old. Nice life.

      • rebeccalouis@hotmail.com'
        rebeccalouis August 29, 2018 at 2:57 am #

        Hey, this is unacceptable any way you look at it and the fact that you defend this behaviour just shows your ignorance and how morally bankrupt You are yourself. They were being pigs and you are too.

      • Mistymay@shawmail.com'
        Roxy August 29, 2018 at 3:44 am #

        Really you are the one that needs to grow up grown men don’t need act like this people are people move on further up the river no need for this behaviour no matter what’s!

      • willydjquibell@gmail.com'
        Will August 29, 2018 at 8:12 am #

        No but maybe point his dick away from kids and not get in verbal confrontations with the mother , if you dont respect fishing dont go …… regardless if they were drinking or not sounds like they are just disrespectful pricks ….. hope the ministry ducks you dbags

  25. daveambeau770723@gmail.com'
    Dave August 28, 2018 at 7:20 pm #

    If these men were drinking alcohol on a boat and no portable washroom was on board is it not considered operating a motor vehicle while impaired?? The RCMP should be laying charges…on each member of the party!! Having a good time fishing is great and I would encourage anyone to spend the day on the water…just leave the alcohol behind…it only causes unnecessary problems that can lead to incidents such as this one!!

    • bullmoosets@gmail.com'
      Tony August 28, 2018 at 8:33 pm #

      Alcohol not the problem, idiots are.

  26. Petermilligan@gmail.com'
    Peter August 28, 2018 at 6:53 pm #

    Yes maybe it got out of control looks like the community boats handled it .the story is spun into a bigger deal.bigger issues to deal with then putting more constraints in the water.

    JC

  27. yvonnedixon@goldcity.net'
    Yvonne Dixon August 28, 2018 at 6:20 pm #

    There should be no problem finding these boys, they can be I.D. through the name on their boat…it’ is registered…Right!

  28. jason.james.dixon@gmail.com'
    jason dixon August 28, 2018 at 5:31 pm #

    This is ok because there is bigger issues in the world ?….just as big of a douche play as the ignorance shown from the douches on the boat …..this is these people world and their kids being subjected to this . I hope a example is made of these pieces of excrement.

  29. Sunflowerjenn79@hitmail.com'
    Jenn August 28, 2018 at 5:21 pm #

    They should be charged

  30. j********@gmail.com'
    Jipp February 19, 2019 at 4:10 pm #

    Yes OUR CREATOR made his beauty for all to use. He didn’t make alchohol. That stuff makes humans idiots. These on the boat, what would they think if some one exposed themselves to ” their” wives or daughthers. Alcohol goes in, brain goes out

    • l***********@gmail.com'
      Marc Lajoie February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

      well said

  31. 15dusone@gmail.com'
    SJW fitr August 28, 2018 at 4:15 pm #

    Really I think there are bigger issues at hand in our world. Shaking!!? Lol

    • foamesh@gmail.com'
      Matt August 28, 2018 at 5:17 pm #

      So which single issue should all 7 billion of us be working on first?

    • cgarbitt@hotmail.com'
      christina August 28, 2018 at 6:39 pm #

      There are bigger issues but if things like this go unreported they will continue to get worse and it is never ok for people to be distespectful for no reason and on top of that making sexually comments and exsposing them selves well children are there ..letting things like this not be reported are what make bigger problems.

    • bimodiz@hotmail.com'
      Marie L Bebamikawe August 28, 2018 at 7:19 pm #

      Those guys should have been charged. They will learn nothing if they have no consequence.

    • nativerayne@hotmail.com'
      lavita August 28, 2018 at 10:09 pm #

      this kind of issue has been going on since the europeans arrived you would think the caucasians would of learned to respect the land they choose to reside on for they have privilege. yea sure the issue is getting old but its still happening decades later centuries later! anyone that is not indegenous was welcomed with love and respect so why is it that a lot choose not to give it back! This is an ongoing issue that needs to change we can only do our part! Stop acting like its no big deal to treat indigenous people that way its not ok! time for the people in this country to appreciate the land they choose to reside on for its prob better than if they were in their own country

    • sacredsouldesigns@hotmail.com'
      Suzanne August 28, 2018 at 11:57 pm #

      exposing yourselves to children and making racist comments are hate crimes, and sex crimes, that’s a big issue, im sure you would be offended if some guy pulled his dick out in front of your children, don’t negate the issue because to you its unimportant, you condone this ??

    • ajgreen13@gmail.com'
      AGE A August 29, 2018 at 2:50 pm #

      So…in your world if an issue does not involve more than 5-10 people it is of no consequence? What is your cut off number before it is considered a crime ? And you laugh out loud because of a human being is scared, insulted and angry about another human being being disrespectful and breaking a law… I would bet any amount that you would not show your post and my reply to your mother and grandmother because of your embarrassment…and if you did and there was no reaction of disappointment therein lays
      your problem…

  32. n*********@gmail.com'
    fueldrickets February 19, 2019 at 7:46 pm #

    IF those were First Nations doing that to a group of non aboriginals, with the exact same scenario, exposing themselves to under age children, an other people like that, THEY would be in jail now, OR already dealt with by the proper authorities!!

    • n**********@hotmail.com'
      lavita trimble February 19, 2019 at 11:10 pm #

      my exact thoughts if the races were opposite rcmp wouldve made time to handle the issue

    • e**************@gmail.com'
      Eric February 19, 2019 at 8:58 pm #

      Yeah no doubt. You can bet they would of had officers available all of a sudden. Just another example about how subtle white privilege and institutionalized racism is…

    • a**********@gmail.com'
      Angela February 19, 2019 at 8:58 pm #

      I can’t believe the RCMP didn’t even bother sending anyone out. They were given an email address? That’s horrible.

  33. s********@shaw.ca'
    Steven February 19, 2019 at 4:10 pm #

    They should be charged. This is not acceptable

  34. b******@hotmail.com'
    Marie L Bebamikawe February 19, 2019 at 4:10 pm #

    They should be made accountable for their actions or they will learn nothing. What they did to the children was very sick and should have been charged.

    • k*************@gmail.com'
      Todd February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

      Grow up, wasting our tax payers money because your offended, what’s he supposed to do , piss his pants. SJW go take a long walk off a short Pier.

      • w*******@shaw.ca'
        Annie February 19, 2019 at 9:10 pm #

        So you condone indecent exposure of private parts to children; it’s you Todd and these demented men that should be ashamed. But it seem that white privilege (thinking that you can do or say anything to aboriginals) that is the problem. Your race of people have never changed since first contact, your behavior is sick.

      • l**********@hotmail.com'
        Mike February 19, 2019 at 11:03 pm #

        Pretty sure that dirtbag that “had to pee” could have simply gone on the port side of the boat or in a bucket. No need to go right in front of kids. I’ve managed hundreds of days on the water consuming many pints without dropping my pants in front of a 3-10 year old. Nice life.

      • r***********@hotmail.com'
        rebeccalouis February 19, 2019 at 11:03 pm #

        Hey, this is unacceptable any way you look at it and the fact that you defend this behaviour just shows your ignorance and how morally bankrupt You are yourself. They were being pigs and you are too.

      • m*******@shawmail.com'
        Roxy February 19, 2019 at 11:03 pm #

        Really you are the one that needs to grow up grown men don’t need act like this people are people move on further up the river no need for this behaviour no matter what’s!

      • w*************@gmail.com'
        Will February 19, 2019 at 11:03 pm #

        No but maybe point his dick away from kids and not get in verbal confrontations with the mother , if you dont respect fishing dont go …… regardless if they were drinking or not sounds like they are just disrespectful pricks ….. hope the ministry ducks you dbags

  35. d***************@gmail.com'
    Dave February 19, 2019 at 4:10 pm #

    If these men were drinking alcohol on a boat and no portable washroom was on board is it not considered operating a motor vehicle while impaired?? The RCMP should be laying charges…on each member of the party!! Having a good time fishing is great and I would encourage anyone to spend the day on the water…just leave the alcohol behind…it only causes unnecessary problems that can lead to incidents such as this one!!

    • b**********@gmail.com'
      Tony February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

      Alcohol not the problem, idiots are.

  36. p************@gmail.com'
    Peter February 19, 2019 at 7:46 pm #

    Yes maybe it got out of control looks like the community boats handled it .the story is spun into a bigger deal.bigger issues to deal with then putting more constraints in the water.

    JC

  37. No1crowt@yahoo.ca'
    Maerly August 28, 2018 at 2:51 pm #

    Total disrespect charge them

    • Inuk2006@hotmail.com'
      Pfrappier August 28, 2018 at 7:29 pm #

      Alcohol and stupidity , with weak brain power ………… really

  38. y**********@goldcity.net'
    Yvonne Dixon February 19, 2019 at 7:46 pm #

    There should be no problem finding these boys, they can be I.D. through the name on their boat…it’ is registered…Right!

  39. j****************@gmail.com'
    jason dixon February 19, 2019 at 7:46 pm #

    This is ok because there is bigger issues in the world ?….just as big of a douche play as the ignorance shown from the douches on the boat …..this is these people world and their kids being subjected to this . I hope a example is made of these pieces of excrement.

  40. s**************@hitmail.com'
    Jenn February 19, 2019 at 7:46 pm #

    They should be charged

  41. 1*******@gmail.com'
    SJW fitr February 19, 2019 at 8:46 pm #

    Really I think there are bigger issues at hand in our world. Shaking!!? Lol

    • f******@gmail.com'
      Matt February 19, 2019 at 10:20 pm #

      So which single issue should all 7 billion of us be working on first?

    • c*******@hotmail.com'
      christina February 19, 2019 at 9:52 pm #

      There are bigger issues but if things like this go unreported they will continue to get worse and it is never ok for people to be distespectful for no reason and on top of that making sexually comments and exsposing them selves well children are there ..letting things like this not be reported are what make bigger problems.

    • b******@hotmail.com'
      Marie L Bebamikawe February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

      Those guys should have been charged. They will learn nothing if they have no consequence.

    • n**********@hotmail.com'
      lavita February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

      this kind of issue has been going on since the europeans arrived you would think the caucasians would of learned to respect the land they choose to reside on for they have privilege. yea sure the issue is getting old but its still happening decades later centuries later! anyone that is not indegenous was welcomed with love and respect so why is it that a lot choose not to give it back! This is an ongoing issue that needs to change we can only do our part! Stop acting like its no big deal to treat indigenous people that way its not ok! time for the people in this country to appreciate the land they choose to reside on for its prob better than if they were in their own country

    • s****************@hotmail.com'
      Suzanne February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

      exposing yourselves to children and making racist comments are hate crimes, and sex crimes, that’s a big issue, im sure you would be offended if some guy pulled his dick out in front of your children, don’t negate the issue because to you its unimportant, you condone this ??

    • a********@gmail.com'
      AGE A February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

      So…in your world if an issue does not involve more than 5-10 people it is of no consequence? What is your cut off number before it is considered a crime ? And you laugh out loud because of a human being is scared, insulted and angry about another human being being disrespectful and breaking a law… I would bet any amount that you would not show your post and my reply to your mother and grandmother because of your embarrassment…and if you did and there was no reaction of disappointment therein lays
      your problem…

  42. n*******@yahoo.ca'
    Maerly February 19, 2019 at 7:46 pm #

    Total disrespect charge them

    • i*******@hotmail.com'
      Pfrappier February 19, 2019 at 8:53 pm #

      Alcohol and stupidity , with weak brain power ………… really